Thread: Sibelius: The Symphonies (Lahti Symphony Orchestra, Okko Kamu)

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Post by Hitters September 29, 2015 (31 of 50)
Being spoiled by Vänská's recordings with this very same orchestra it it taking me quite a while to get rid of my pre-concepts of these works in order to listen to them in a fresh way.

Well, I have been listening repeatedly to the 7th symphony and must say it is simply magnificent. This is the firs of the bunch that really moved me. The playing is superb, but this is no surprise. But I was amazed by the dynamics and the natural way in which the orchestra sounds. really beautiful.

I am curious about the new recording by Vänskä+Minnesota, but I would rest satisfied if this very new set had been all BIS had released.

Post by Chris October 1, 2015 (32 of 50)
Hitters said:

Being spoiled by Vänská's recordings with this very same orchestra it it taking me quite a while to get rid of my pre-concepts of these works in order to listen to them in a fresh way.

Well, I have been listening repeatedly to the 7th symphony and must say it is simply magnificent. This is the firs of the bunch that really moved me. The playing is superb, but this is no surprise. But I was amazed by the dynamics and the natural way in which the orchestra sounds. really beautiful.

I am curious about the new recording by Vänskä+Minnesota, but I would rest satisfied if this very new set had been all BIS had released.

I like the Minnesota recordings released so far too.
Do you have any of those ?
How do they compare to the new Kamu set both playing and balance-wise?
I am a bit worried that I might be disappointed by the SQ or balance of this new set. Judging from the video there are a heck of a lot of mics involved and they seem to be very close too.
I found the streaming quality,MP3? via speakers unimpressive.
I hope the native 24/96 files sound much better than what I heard that way which was clearly below rbcd standard.

Post by Chris October 1, 2015 (33 of 50)
Arell said:

The new Sibelius set has gotten a most favourable review and is a recording of the month at Musicweb International.
http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Sep/Sibelius_sys_BIS2076.htm

I can only agree. Like that reviewer, I have played the 24/96 stereo files from Eclassical and can hardly wait until the surround files are available. (From the same source I right now downloading the new Bis recording of Rachmaninov's 2nd symphony.)

Hello Jan, how would you rate the SQ between the Rach 2 and the Sibelius set?
I am tempted as long as the offer lasts. But both the video and the musicweb review makes me suspect the Sibelius set is both very close mic'd and multimic'd.
I trust Okko Kamu and the orchestra know their Sibelius very well indeed. But I need top notch SQ as well to part with my money for this set.
PS what mch DAC are you using?
Cheers Chris

Post by Arell October 1, 2015 (34 of 50)
Chris said:

Hello Jan, how would you rate the SQ between the Rach 2 and the Sibelius set?
I am tempted as long as the offer lasts. But both the video and the musicweb review makes me suspect the Sibelius set is both very close mic'd and multimic'd.
I trust Okko Kamu and the orchestra know their Sibelius very well indeed. But I need top notch SQ as well to part with my money for this set.
PS what mch DAC are you using?
Cheers Chris

Hi, Chris.
First impression from the flac files is that the Sibelius/Kamu recording is in better sound quality than the Rachmaninov/Litton. But I've only heard the latter once yet so it's possible that I'm wrong.
Also I recently played the Rach 2 on sacd (Fischer/Channel) which means that the stereo sounds a bit flat in comparison.

But I have to say that the Kamu discs were really impressive as downloaded files and I will definitively get them on SACD or, once BIS is ready to release them for downloading, as mch-files. (I will also complete the Vänskä/Minnesota cycle once it is released which means I'll have 5 Sibelius complete symphonies cycles; 4 of them from BIS.)

And now it's time to come out of the closet: I don't have a dedicated DAC (yet). I play HR files directly from a MacMini via a low priced HDMI cable to my receiver, a Marantz 7007.

Jan

Post by Chris October 1, 2015 (35 of 50)
Arell said:

Hi, Chris.
First impression from the flac files is that the Sibelius/Kamu recording is in better sound quality than the Rachmaninov/Litton. But I've only heard the latter once yet so it's possible that I'm wrong.
Also I recently played the Rach 2 on sacd (Fischer/Channel) which means that the stereo sounds a bit flat in comparison.

But I have to say that the Kamu discs were really impressive as downloaded files and I will definitively get them on SACD or, once BIS is ready to release them for downloading, as mch-files. (I will also complete the Vänskä/Minnesota cycle once it is released which means I'll have 5 Sibelius complete symphonies cycles; 4 of them from BIS.)

And now it's time to come out of the closet: I don't have a dedicated DAC (yet). I play HR files directly from a MacMini via a low priced HDMI cable to my receiver, a Marantz 7007.

Jan

Thanks for your response Jan.
Unfortunately it looks like I have missed the offer. I can't find it any more at their site.
I probably resisted too long. The offer is normally for the first week only . And I did not keep track of when it was released.
Anyway I have plenty of Sibelius symphonies both from BIS and other labels.
Most of mine are actually from the analogue era,ranging from Karajan's Philharmonia 5th as a very listenable and superbly played hi res download from the late fifties,through his 60s DGG LPs and later EMI in the 70s,plus Maazel VPO on Decca LPs and maybe in some respect the best of all Rozhtestwensky on Melodia LPs ,the best 4th ever imho.
Regarding how you play your downloads I don't know if your receiver actually decodes the files or not.
But if what you actually get is the 24/48, low budget,dac inside a mac, you are in for a real surprise how much better things can sound with a dedicated true hi res dac than from the mac itself.
Even any of the quite cheap tiny usb stick size portable DACs on the market these days are a clear improvement on any mac interior dac.
The best DACs are at least as good as the very best SACD players, and I really mean the very best,and even better with 24/96 and 24/176.4 or 24/192 pcm files or higher rate DSD masterfiles imo.
By the way,the Channel Classics/Fischer SACD is my favourite Rach 2.
But I really like the Liadow "filler" on the BIS.
And the cover-painting is stunning,unlike the a bit too many Fischer close ups from Channel Classics by now. And I say so although I am guilty of one of those.
I am enjoying an evening sky over lake Vättern with the same stunning colour as that cover live at the moment!
Cheers Chris

Post by Arell October 1, 2015 (36 of 50)
Thanks for the DAC suggestions, Chris. I'm on a budget so 'the best' is out of the question. But I will check with some dealers.
That Liadov piece is actually on old favourite of mine. I can recommend a Melodiya CD of his orchestral music with Svetlanov and the (impressive name) USSR State Achademic Symphony Orchestra. Not the best SQ but with that passion and raw Soviet sound that is too rare nowadays.
Liadov is btw often transcribed as Lyadov. The 'w' is probably German transcription.

Post by armenian October 1, 2015 (37 of 50)
Chris said:

unlike the a bit too many Fischer close ups from Channel Classics by now. And I say so although I am guilty of one of those.

I remember with horror Phillips doing the same towards the end of vinyl era with giant close up portraits of pianist Alfred Brendel, my take on this is that once a label starts doing that nothing will ever stop it.

Vahe

Post by Chris October 1, 2015 (38 of 50)
armenian said:

I remember with horror Phillips doing the same towards the end of vinyl era with giant close up portraits of pianist Alfred Brendel, my take on this is that once a label starts doing that nothing will ever stop it.

Vahe

Not to mention Karajan and DGG. But then again he was the most photogenic conductor ever imo.
I have photographed some of today's big name conductors and more not so big name ones. But I was too young to do Karajan.
I sometimes display a Karajan LP on a bookshelf as artwork of the week.
This week I have the LP cover of Sir Adrian Boult's classic 1977 EMI LP of Elgar's 1st ,William Logsdail: St Martin in the Fields with a little Eliza in front of the church on my left bookshelf.
And on the right Karajan's Tristan and Isolde without Karajan but Vickers and Dernesh against a giant sail. Very atmospheric and fitting artworks for both works.
On both sides of the bookshelves,actually LPs filled shelves,my almost 2 metres tall speakers are towering.

Post by Arell October 1, 2015 (39 of 50)
Pardon, but back to topic -- even if I'm curious about which Fischer cover is yours, Chris.

Like the reviewer at Musicweb, which I linked to earlier, the Kamu recording I'm most impressed with is the 4th symphony. Actually, I found no weak spot, if compared to my memory of other cycles on my shelves.

My first Sibelius symphony box was Rattle's on EMI; I got it for free for renewing my subscription to Gramophone some 35 years ago. The beginning of Rattle's 4th is most certainly NOT realistically recorded. They have put the mikes VERY close to those bases, almost into them. But it's awesome!

There is Sibelius that you can get into at first listening, like most of his symphonic poems and some of his symphonies, 2nd and 5th are probably the 'easiest' ones. I still have a problem with the 6th. And - up till the Kamu recording - with the 7th. Kamu began to open up that one to me, at last.
And the 4th is, as I said, marvellous.

I take it for granted that all of you Sibelius addicts know about the bundles of BIS's complete Sibelius that is offered at Eclassical (No personal connection. I just like the label, having bought 100+ of their recordings).

Post by Chris October 1, 2015 (40 of 50)
Arell said:

Pardon, but back to topic -- even if I'm curious about which Fischer cover is yours, Chris.


My first Sibelius symphony box was Rattle's on EMI; I got it for free for renewing my subscription to Gramophone some 35 years ago. The beginning of Rattle's 4th is most certainly NOT realistically recorded. They have put the mikes VERY close to those bases, almost into them. But it's awesome!



I take it for granted that all of you Sibelius addicts know about the bundles of BIS's complete Sibelius that is offered at Eclassical (No personal connection. I just like the label, having bought 100+ of their recordings).

Interesting to hear.I never heard the EMI Rattle series. But I saw a young Simon Rattle,long before the "Sir"was added,conduct a very exciting full Sibelius symphonies series in London in the late 70s or early 80s. I can't really remember when or where,RFH or the Barbican? But I remember that I was very impressed that such a young fellow,even younger than myself,could conduct such imo then,very difficult music so well.
There is actually a new series from Rattle and the BPO just released on their own,in house, label.
And the classic 60s Decca Maazel VPO series,has also just been re-released as 24/96 hi res downloads.
There is also a Sibelius series from Storgårds and the BBC Philharmonic on Chandos to be reckoned with.
I have downloaded the 3rd from that series and quite like it.Excellent Chandos SQ and He almost "outVänskas" "dynamics Vänska" with regard to dynamics.
The soft beginning,parrarampampam... and so on,is very soft indeed from Storgårds,closer to pp than the marked p?
On the other hand both Colin Davis and Maazel and Berstein seem to play almost mf from the first bar.
My own first Sibelius complete series was Bernstein's 60s CBS boxed set on LPs. Strangely enough,that one has also been re-released as downloads recently. But at full price.
To have all the symphonies complete as downloads when Vänskä's failed to "incarnate", I also added the Atlanta Spano live recordings of the 6th and 7th and they are also worth hearing.
Regarding the Sibelius bundle from BIS,the symphonies are not on offer as a real bargain any longer unfortunately.
Colin Davis's two recordings of the 7th on Pentatone with the BSO and on LSO Live are also good versions imho.
But I have to admit now that I would like to hear Kamu's version as well.
I used to look over his shoulder into the score during Mozart rehearsals at Storan in Gothenburg many years ago,and admire his conducting since then.
And I would of course also like to hear whatever Vänska will bring to the score.
I am a truly committed Sibelius addict.
This week I am reading Robert Layton's Sibelius biography and regret that I did not go for the bundle offer while it lasted.
Mea culpa.
My addition to the Fischer covers was for Mahler's 5th.
Cheers Chris

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