Thread: BIS thread

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Post by bissie June 20, 2015 (3991 of 4131)
Transferred from "Works that we need on SACD"


onenairb said:

Mozarts: Complete Piano Concertos

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Interesting to read all these wishes. And frustrating, actually.
Yes, everything should be available in high-res and it isn't. But, instead of wishing for the impossible (the Mozart quoted is, however, only a couple of records from being completed), what would all of you say about

ACTUALLY LISTENING TO AND BUYING/REVIEWING/DISCUSSING what IS being released????

I have a sinking feeling in my stomach for the future of this, when the vast majority of the diehards on even this site (yes, there are exceptions and I am more grateful than I can express) doesn't give a toss about the about 5 SACD:s PER MONTH that we do release - and they are not just transfers but brand new recordings, and BIS is by a fair margin the world's biggest SACD label.

Physical selling is sinking out of sight, and were it not for the downloading and lots of radio transmission fees, we could pack up and start selling baked beans instead. Eventually the question is going to be whether or not to rely on high-res downloading in stereo AND surround and only release on CD for the vast majority that doesn't care about the bitrates and sampling frequencies. The extra costs for releasing physical SACD:s are, economically and financially speaking, NOT defendable in today's market - I am just so bloody stubborn and wishing to serve up the highest quality. When, very soon now - beta-testing in progress - we can serve up high-res surround downloading files (at no extra charge and much cheaper than physical), there may very well be a major change in BIS's release policy. But we're not there yet.

Robert

Post by diw June 20, 2015 (3992 of 4131)
bissie said:



When, very soon now - beta-testing in progress - we can serve up high-res surround downloading files (at no extra charge and much cheaper than physical), there may very well be a major change in BIS's release policy. But we're not there yet.

Robert

I hope not. You would probably lose this customer, at least.

Post by krisjan June 20, 2015 (3993 of 4131)
Robert Ė My sympathies to you for the financial squeeze youíve been placed under with the changing market dynamics away from physical discs. I have feared this circumstance for several years now and it seems to be proceeding relentlessly to becoming true. I donít do downloads - at least not yet - but have been at least thinking about transferring my very large RBCD (and SACD) collection to a hard drive(s) but to be perfectly honest, this has little emotional appeal to me. I would much rather pop a silver disc into an appropriate player and get music rather than searching through some huge database and clicking on a title. At some point the recorded music market will probably compel me to get over my emotional reticence with server-based music files but that day hasnít come yet.

Iíll end this pity party be saying that should you be forced to stop issuing SACDís and henceforth issue only RBCDís that my purchase of BIS silver discs will not be curtailed in the least Ė if it is repertoire that I like or am interested in, I will buy it in RBCD.

Post by Simon V. June 20, 2015 (3994 of 4131)
krisjan said:

Iíll end this pity party be saying that should you be forced to stop issuing SACDís and henceforth issue only RBCDís that my purchase of BIS silver discs will not be curtailed in the least Ė if it is repertoire that I like or am interested in, I will buy it in RBCD.

I would also buy RBCDs in preference to downloads. I can't form any sort of emotional attachment to music stored on my hard drive. I feel no commitment to it.

I suppose eventually I'll have to transfer everything to my hard drive, including my mind (shouldn't take up too many GBs).

Post by Lute June 20, 2015 (3995 of 4131)
Thank you for all the wonderful multichannel recordings and SACDs, Robert. I greatly appreciate and value all the NEW recordings from BIS, which has been a wellspring of wonderful music. I, for one, regularly look forward to each new recording...purchasing and discussing several every month. I hope it will be possible for BIS to continue releasing at least some Mch SACDs in the future. But, I understand that BIS must also move forward and change with the times. Come what may, you'll have my continued support.

Post by Credo June 20, 2015 (3996 of 4131)
Sad to read this on the day 3 BIS discs arrived in the mail, and with another on order.
But I understand your dilemma. You have to do what is right for your business.

Like others, I am a little underwhelmed or indifferent to downloading, but I will probably go that route when the time comes. Whether I will buy as many titles as I do now though is another matter., If a title is never out of stock, or in danger of deletion ( not in your case!) there may be less urgency to buy "now". I suspect that I am not alone in always having a large stack of unopened discs queued up.

In the meantime Robert , thank you for all that you do. Having only just dipped my toes into the marvellous Brautigam Mozart series, I guess I need to get a move on!

Post by armenian June 20, 2015 (3997 of 4131)
bissie said:

When, very soon now - beta-testing in progress - we can serve up high-res surround downloading files (at no extra charge and much cheaper than physical), there may very well be a major change in BIS's release policy. But we're not there yet.

I hope not, I also hope that if it eventually comes to that perhaps BIS will consider issuing some SACDís from time to time just for some selected releases but not give up SACD entirely. Currently I have more BIS than any other Label in my SACD collection, we hear similar predictions from my other favorite, Channel Classics, but they are still offering SACDís.

I know change is coming but no matter what happens, downloads are not for me.

Vahe

Post by bissie June 20, 2015 (3998 of 4131)
Credo said:

Sad to read this on the day 3 BIS discs arrived in the mail, and with another on order.
But I understand your dilemma. You have to do what is right for your business.

Like others, I am a little underwhelmed or indifferent to downloading, but I will probably go that route when the time comes. Whether I will buy as many titles as I do now though is another matter., If a title is never out of stock, or in danger of deletion ( not in your case!) there may be less urgency to buy "now". I suspect that I am not alone in always having a large stack of unopened discs queued up.

In the meantime Robert , thank you for all that you do. Having only just dipped my toes into the marvellous Brautigam Mozart series, I guess I need to get a move on!

Look, everyone, don't misunderstand me. We have taken to SACD like no other company on Earth - that's why we are biggest. I personally still much prefer to have something in my hand, but I also realize that this is depending on generation - I couldn't even think about reading a book from a screen. So don't misunderstand me - I am on your/our side.

My gripe was originally with the Thread "What are we missing on SACD" or words to that effect, since I find that - at least on this site - I have reason to be underwhelmed by the interest shown on the things we DO do - why cry for more, when you don't even look at what IS coming? And this on this site, of all.

Facts are rather disheartening: most people simply don't have SACD playback equipment and couldn't care less about the SACD layer. However, almost anyone does have possibilities to download high-res, and they do - on our site, if a product is presented both in 16 and 24 bits, about 80% opt for the 24-bit version.
Then there is also the added potential problem about manufacturing. There is only one factory in the world - SONY DADC in the Czech Republic (having moved its plant from Austria). They also feel the pinch of reduced physical selling, and at some stage they may just give a fair warning - order your last SACD pressing, and that's it. Then we're really for the high-jump. For the time being there seems to be enough demand, but who knows when the axe will fall, because fall it will.

I don't think either thing will happen soon - neither our abandoning SACD or DADC stopping producing them, but, if the physical selling goes down much further, measures have to be taken - basically it is stupidity to produce 100% of our products in a system that only perhaps 2-3% can use (and paying double production costs for it), when exactly the same quality (actually theoretically better, since no conversion took place) can be offered much more environmentally in a different way of dissemination.

But don't worry just yet. We have too much money and interest vested in SACD - and I am too bloody stubborn - to just skip it, but, having said that, I for sure would be happier, if some more interest were generated over the extra advantage we give people at no extra charge whatsoever - to them...

Robert

Post by wehecht June 20, 2015 (3999 of 4131)
Over on another thread we have two guys going back and forth over the sonic attributes of sacd reissues of mono recordings from 50+ years ago. Without in anyway denigrating the performances they're discussing this stuff drives me crazy. In a world where orchestras are hurting and dedicated producers of terrific new recordings, like Robert and Jared, are also dealing with shrinking sales I see red every time I read about folks spending their money on the latest remaster of a recording they already have in two or three previous formats. Nuts! Listen to Schnabel or Klemperer on one of your other formats and spend the money on new recordings. They might find that besides being in another dimension sonically, Brautigam's Beethoven or Fischer's Mahler is every bit as good (and technically much better played), while freshly illuminating the music itself.

Post by Lute June 20, 2015 (4000 of 4131)
wehecht said:

Over on another thread we have two guys going back and forth over the sonic attributes of sacd reissues of mono recordings from 50+ years ago. Without in anyway denigrating the performances they're discussing this stuff drives me crazy. In a world where orchestras are hurting and dedicated producers of terrific new recordings, like Robert and Jared, are also dealing with shrinking sales I see red every time I read about folks spending their money on the latest remaster of a recording they already have in two or three previous formats. Nuts! Listen to Schnabel or Klemperer on one of your other formats and spend the money on new recordings. They might find that besides being in another dimension sonically, Brautigam's Beethoven or Fischer's Mahler is every bit as good (and technically much better played), while freshly illuminating the music itself.

+1

I was going to make a similar comment. Of course we don't want to discourage people from discussing such reissues here. DSD remasterings of older recordings (classical, jazz, rock, etc...) have become a big part of SACDs.

But... It's amazing how some people dwell on older recordings and bitrates and converters, etc, etc... I see this on other forums as well. It drives me nuts! It's as if they fell into some kind of mental 'Black Hole' and time has stopped for them.

There is so much quality music and so many quality performances being made right now. Labels like BIS and the discussions of their recordings have broaden my musical experience and horizons immensely.

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