Thread: SHM-CD

Posts: 127
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Post by Dan Popp July 30, 2008 (81 of 127)
jakeroux wrote:

While I have found this thread interesting, there sure has been a lot of talk (up to 8 pages now), with very little empirical evidence offered (i.e. purchasing and listening to an actual SHM-CD – and my thanks to those few who have offered their observations).

Jake,
The underlying issue is a philosophical difference between those who seem to believe that any claim, no matter how far-fetched, is plausible until disproved; and those of us who believe in reason and logic.

I can claim anything. If I don't have to show evidence for my claim, but rather somehow the burden is shifted to you to DISprove my claim before I put forth one iota of effort to prove it, then we have both abandoned rationality.

"Empirical evidence" needs to come from the manufacturer of SHM-CD. After that comes the buying and listening.

Post by Peter July 30, 2008 (82 of 127)
Mr Popp, you are missing the point. For all the snake-oil which has been discussed, the purveyors do in fact provide their evidence. Whether that evidence holds water or not is what is up for discussion.

Unlike you, I am interested in reading the other person's view - that doesn't make me irrational, even if you think it does.

Post by Dan Popp July 30, 2008 (83 of 127)
Peter wrote:

the purveyors do in fact provide their evidence.

Where, In fact?

Post by jakeroux July 30, 2008 (84 of 127)
Dan Popp said:

Jake,
The underlying issue is a philosophical difference between those who seem to believe that any claim, no matter how far-fetched, is plausible until disproved; and those of us who believe in reason and logic.

Point well taken. However, at some point, without begrudging the right of those who reasonable maintain there is no logic in the claims, and therefore those claims do not warrant the cost or trouble of listening for ourselves, others of us may well say, enough yick yack on the matter, let me hear for myself if there are any differences resulting from the manufacturing process, all other things (which I believe would be limited to mastering and redbook format) being equal . Those are the opinions I would like to hear more of. And this has been mentioned before in this thread, but was there not similar skepticism regarding MoFi’s use of 24k gold on their reissues? What has been the general consensus on that “enhancement” – snake oil or material (no pun intended) benefit?

Post by Peter July 30, 2008 (85 of 127)
Dan Popp said:

Where, In fact?

Contact http://www.universal-music.co.jp and ask for details.

Post by Peter July 30, 2008 (86 of 127)
jakeroux said:

Point well taken. However, at some point, without begrudging the right of those who reasonable maintain there is no logic in the claims, and therefore those claims do not warrant the cost or trouble of listening for ourselves, others of us may well say, enough yick yack on the matter, let me hear for myself if there are any differences resulting from the manufacturing process, all other things (which I believe would be limited to mastering and redbook format) being equal . Those are the opinions I would like to hear more of. And this has been mentioned before in this thread, but was there not similar skepticism regarding MoFi’s use of 24k gold on their reissues? What has been the general consensus on that “enhancement” – snake oil or material (no pun intended) benefit?

You can't compare various "pressings" (for want of a better word) unless you have evidence that the masterings are identical.

There has been the odd SACD I understand where the sound is inferior to a previous CD incarnation, solely because the mastering wasn't as successful.

I have some Mo-Fi SACDs, but not previous incarnations. The SACDs sound really fine to me.

Peter

Post by Dan Popp July 30, 2008 (87 of 127)
Peter wrote:

Contact http://www.universal-music.co.jp and ask for details.

Oh, for heaven's sake. A website in Japanese? No published paper, just "ask for details"?

Again you have the matter upside-down. If this were a serious new audio technology, the company would want the industry, and its potential customers, to KNOW HOW IT WORKED. It would not be up to the snake-oil-buyer to "ask for details." Geez, you didn't even give us the secret password...

Post by Peter July 30, 2008 (88 of 127)
Dan Popp said:

Oh, for heaven's sake. A website in Japanese? No published paper, just "ask for details"?

Again you have the matter upside-down. If this were a serious new audio technology, the company would want the industry, and its potential customers, to KNOW HOW IT WORKED. It would not be up to the snake-oil-buyer to "ask for details." Geez, you didn't even give us the secret password...

Mr Popp

I'll leave it to you to do your own research. I take it from your response that Universal Japan hasn't published its paper in the USA or made it available to you, so you haven't seen it. Perhaps they don't see you as a potential customer at this point in time. You will have to be patient and wait for a US release, with no doubt full details of the process so that you can decide from the empirical evidence exactly what is going on. If you can't wait, I think the only way to get advance details is to contact the manufacturer youself.

I don't have a secret password.

Upside down? I think not.

Don't shout. It's rude.

Post by rammiepie July 30, 2008 (89 of 127)
I have just ordered and received several remastered SACDs from Japan and when I access their web page (CDJapan) I am overwhelmed by the SHM-CD blitz! In reading some of the reviewer's assessment of the new format, it does, indeed, sound like snake-oil. And beware, a lot of the masters used for the new SHM-CD remasters are 90's vintage and some reviewers assess that their old cds sound "Superior." I'd rather spend the 2600 yen on an SACD remaster than take a "chance" on a 90's remaster at the same price in an unproved "new" format.........The powers that be could've done hybrid SHM-SACD remasters and then we'd all be happy......but again, it's paying royalties to SONY for their SACD/DSD patents all over again!

Post by azure July 30, 2008 (90 of 127)
Hopefully all of this places pressure on Sony to release more hybrid CDs. ;-)

http://www.sonymusicshop.jp/smdr/sms/shop/goods/category.aspx?style=T&sort=sale_dt&category=00000060

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