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Discussion: Verdi: La Traviata - Kleiber

Posts: 36
Page: 1 2 3 4 next

Post by jdaniel@jps.net November 12, 2004 (1 of 36)
I'm thinking of picking this up. I'm aware the performance is very good. It was originally analog, but quad? Otherwise surround processed. Anyone hear it in surround yet? It's also 96/24, better than usual from DG, but unfortunately not taken from the analog master tape.

Post by Chris November 12, 2004 (2 of 36)
jdaniel@jps.net said:

I'm thinking of picking this up. I'm aware the performance is very good. It was originally analog, but quad? Otherwise surround processed. Anyone hear it in surround yet? It's also 96/24, better than usual from DG, but unfortunately not taken from the analog master tape.

I haven't heard the SACD.But I have the LPs and by DGG standards they are good.
Voices are a bit close, but there is nice bloom and surprisingly good string sound being DGG.And of course the interpretation is super.
If you pick it up let me know.I find the Beethoven series on SACD an improvement compared to the LPs.I know you were disappointed by the ninth which I consider my reference for the work. I think it sounds pretty good considering its age.Very clear, very open and also with a lot of bloom and coherence.Ok,strings are a bit wiry at times,compared to other vintage recordings like the Firebird on Mercury or the Beethoven Violin Concerto on RCA Living Stereo But I still think that Karajan's cycle is a classic and if you listen through tubed SACD player and Tube amp like I do, it sounds very good indeed.
Not quite the equal of the best RCAs or Mercuries,but better than any ordinary RBCD I've heard.

Post by Johnno November 12, 2004 (3 of 36)
I was thinking of making this my first SACD opera purchase, as I have the performance on pre-recorded cassettes (surprisingly good sound, actually) so I shall be most interested in any conmments made.

Post by Daland November 12, 2004 (4 of 36)
jdaniel@jps.net said:

I'm thinking of picking this up. I'm aware the performance is very good. It was originally analog, but quad? Otherwise surround processed. Anyone hear it in surround yet? It's also 96/24, better than usual from DG, but unfortunately not taken from the analog master tape.

I'm not a great fan of DG because their SACDs are not based on direct transfers from the original tape, but this SACD set can be warmly recommended. It is a vast improvement on the CD version, especially as far as the sound stage is concerned. The orchestral sound is full and warm, the strings being much smoother than in the Redbook version (though not as silky as in the Mercury Living Presence series). The voices are well caught, especially that of Ileana Cotrubas in the title role (It seems to me that soprano voices sound better on SACD than tenor voices, which are often shrill and metallic, the Florez and Calleja recitals being cases in point).
I bought this SACD set in August when it became available here in Germany. The recording is also notable for the use made of the rear channels, notably in Act I and Act III. Whether this was originally a quad recording is anyone's guess. The technical information given in the booklet just refers to a "new surround mix", which would suggest that this was initially a multi-channel recording. But who knows?
Surely, it would be highly desirable to have other Kleiber opera recordings such as "Der Freischütz" or "Tristan" on SACD.

Post by jdaniel@jps.net November 12, 2004 (5 of 36)
Daland writes:

Surely, it would be highly desirable to have other Kleiber opera recordings such as "Der Freischütz" or "Tristan" on SACD.

Yes, a wonderful Tristan, though a very early fully digital recording. I wonder if even 24 bits would be available on it.

Post by ksarant December 11, 2004 (6 of 36)
jdaniel@jps.net said:

I'm thinking of picking this up. I'm aware the performance is very good. It was originally analog, but quad? Otherwise surround processed. Anyone hear it in surround yet? It's also 96/24, better than usual from DG, but unfortunately not taken from the analog master tape.

There is one MAJOR problem with this new remastering. At the beginning of Track 7, Disc One, there is a crescendo in the strings which leads to the re-entry of the chorus with "Si ridesta in ciel l'aurora." In the score, the beginning of this crescendo overlaps with the final chord of the on-stage band. This is exactly how you hear it in the original CD release of the Kleiber recording. In this new release, you hear the final chord of the stage band and then there are 6 seconds of silence in Track 6 before you hear the string crescendo at the beginning of track 7. This destroys the continuity of the piece and is simply WRONG. I don't understand how such a mistake could have been made. I will pursue this matter with Universal and see if they have corrected this mistake and whether they will send me a replacement disc. In the meantime, I don't recommend you purchase this SACD issue.

I bought this release out of curiosity and a desire to see if the sound is significantly improved over the original CD release, which has excellent sound to begin with. Listening on conventional CD player (I don't have SACD player yet) I notice little improvement in the sound, despite the 96KHz/24-bit mastering. Furthermore, the original booklet articles about La Traviata have been replaced with a short 2-page appreciation of Carlos Kleiber. The booklet itself is reduced in size and contains libretto only in Italian and English. French and German users are given a password to go online for the libretto.

All in all, I'm very disappointed in this release and it was a waste of money. The 6-second gap in the musical flow of Act 1, however, makes this release musically unacceptable.

Post by seth December 11, 2004 (7 of 36)
ksarant said:

There is one MAJOR problem with this new remastering. At the beginning of Track 7, Disc One, there is a crescendo in the strings which leads to the re-entry of the chorus with "Si ridesta in ciel l'aurora." In the score, the beginning of this crescendo overlaps with the final chord of the on-stage band. This is exactly how you hear it in the original CD release of the Kleiber recording. In this new release, you hear the final chord of the stage band and then there are 6 seconds of silence in Track 6 before you hear the string crescendo at the beginning of track 7. This destroys the continuity of the piece and is simply WRONG. I don't understand how such a mistake could have been made. I will pursue this matter with Universal and see if they have corrected this mistake and whether they will send me a replacement disc. In the meantime, I don't recommend you purchase this SACD issue.

I bought this release out of curiosity and a desire to see if the sound is significantly improved over the original CD release, which has excellent sound to begin with. Listening on conventional CD player (I don't have SACD player yet) I notice little improvement in the sound, despite the 96KHz/24-bit mastering. Furthermore, the original booklet articles about La Traviata have been replaced with a short 2-page appreciation of Carlos Kleiber. The booklet itself is reduced in size and contains libretto only in Italian and English. French and German users are given a password to go online for the libretto.

All in all, I'm very disappointed in this release and it was a waste of money. The 6-second gap in the musical flow of Act 1, however, makes this release musically unacceptable.

post this on DG's message board:

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/yellowlounge/

Post by ksarant December 11, 2004 (8 of 36)
seth said:

post this on DG's message board:

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/yellowlounge/

Thanks, I had forgotten about their message board.

Post by Daland December 12, 2004 (9 of 36)
ksarant said:

There is one MAJOR problem with this new remastering. At the beginning of Track 7, Disc One, there is a crescendo in the strings which leads to the re-entry of the chorus with "Si ridesta in ciel l'aurora." In the score, the beginning of this crescendo overlaps with the final chord of the on-stage band. This is exactly how you hear it in the original CD release of the Kleiber recording. In this new release, you hear the final chord of the stage band and then there are 6 seconds of silence in Track 6 before you hear the string crescendo at the beginning of track 7. This destroys the continuity of the piece and is simply WRONG. I don't understand how such a mistake could have been made. I will pursue this matter with Universal and see if they have corrected this mistake and whether they will send me a replacement disc. In the meantime, I don't recommend you purchase this SACD issue.

I bought this release out of curiosity and a desire to see if the sound is significantly improved over the original CD release, which has excellent sound to begin with. Listening on conventional CD player (I don't have SACD player yet) I notice little improvement in the sound, despite the 96KHz/24-bit mastering. Furthermore, the original booklet articles about La Traviata have been replaced with a short 2-page appreciation of Carlos Kleiber. The booklet itself is reduced in size and contains libretto only in Italian and English. French and German users are given a password to go online for the libretto.

All in all, I'm very disappointed in this release and it was a waste of money. The 6-second gap in the musical flow of Act 1, however, makes this release musically unacceptable.

It is impossible to notice the improvement in the sound without an SACD player because the 96kHz/24-bit mastering applies only to the SACD layer and the CD layer is only 44.1Hz/16-bit as indicated in the booklet.
The 6-second gap is there, but most people would not even notice it because no music is missing. There is just a brief pause after the duet before the crescendo sets in. Perhaps this is one of Kleiber's idiosyncrasies, which has now been restored. Why a replacement disc? Just move on to the next track if you don't like the break. This is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Post by mdt December 12, 2004 (10 of 36)
Daland said:

It is impossible to notice the improvement in the sound without an SACD player because the 96kHz/24-bit mastering applies only to the SACD layer and the CD layer is only 44.1Hz/16-bit as indicated in the booklet.

This recording was remastered earlyer to 96/24 and released on CD in the Centenial series. I supose the CD layer of the SA-CD consists of the same material. Comparing the SA-CD's CD layer to one of the remastered CDs will show now difference whereas it should show an improovement over the original CD release.

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