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Discussion: Mahler: Symphony No. 9 - Gilbert

Posts: 48
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Post by Chris August 31, 2009 (1 of 48)
There have been quite a lot of negative things said in different threads here both about too much of Mahler´s music being released on SACD and also some things said about BIS´s choice of sampling rates.

I chimed in here and there, mainly in the technical sampling rate discussions.

Regarding Mahler´s music I love it far too much to have reached anywhere near saturation point.


And when BIS now releases a recording of this very high standard both musically and technically,I have nothing but praise to offer!

I have just returned back home from a week of live music at both rehearsals and concerts in Stockholm, and with freshly re-calibrated ears so to say:

I must agree with Fafnir in his review, this is IMO, the best recorded Mahler ninth I have ever heard too!

The recording is a very truthful, very realitic example of how the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic actually sound playing great music in their own concert hall!

The recording is very well balanced with no zooming in or out or artificial spotmiking that I have so many times reacted against in many commercial recordings.

There is basically nothing of that sort here!

What you will hear if your system allows it, is an absolutely natural representation of a large symphony orchestra in a good hall!

The recording itself then ,is so good that after the initial pleasant surprise over how stunningly realistic it is if you know this hall and orchestra
from live performances there as I do, you can fully concentrate on the music!

This is an excellent example of a recording that in no way gets in between you and the music!

What about the music and the way it is played here then?

Well IMHO Mahler´s 9th is one of the absolutely greatest symphonies ever composed!

And since I slipped into both deep Zen mood and too much babble mode in my review of Mahler´s 4th on Channel ,I will try to be more brief this time .

I have already expressed that the only competition on SACD Chailly and the formidable Concertgebouw unfortunately leave me cold !

I find it strangely distant and frigid.

Note perfect yes, but somehow uninvolving and without reaching to the very heart of this deeply tragic music.

My absolute reference for Mahler´s 9th still is, Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic on LPs .
Not the later digital version on CD!

Alan Gilbert and the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra do not de-throne Karajan or his orchestra.

They are in some respects still in a class of their own IMO.

But Alan Gilbert and the excellent Royal Stockholm Philharmonic offer a very valid, very hearfelt interpretation to stand by its side.

The final bars of the adagio even rivals Karajan!

This is ,just like my recent favourites from Channel, a recording I will listen to very often!

And if I can finish with a wish!

Please, please Robert, be there more often in the future ,and give us more LIVE recordings like this one!

All the best Chris

Post by wehecht August 31, 2009 (2 of 48)
Chris said:

I have already expressed that the only competition on SACD Chailly and the formidable Concertgebouw unfortunately leave me cold !

I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of bissie's new 9th, but it should be mentioned that there is also the Michael Tilson Thomas/San Fransisco Symphony recording, which is excellent in most respects. I'm especially looking forward to the new recording because on one disc Gilbert's tempos must be closer to those I've always found most convincing as opposed to the 88+ and 89+ minutes of MTT and Chailly.

Post by Chris September 1, 2009 (3 of 48)
wehecht said:

I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of bissie's new 9th, but it should be mentioned that there is also the Michael Tilson Thomas/San Fransisco Symphony recording, which is excellent in most respects. I'm especially looking forward to the new recording because on one disc Gilbert's tempos must be closer to those I've always found most convincing as opposed to the 88+ and 89+ minutes of MTT and Chailly.

Sorry ,I should of course have said:

The only other SACD of Mahler´s 9th in my collection.

I am also aware of ,but haven´t heard Tilson Thomas and the SFO.

I do have Mahler´s 7th by them and quite like it .

But in comparison to this new 9th from BIS it is IMO an example of multimiking a bit overdone.

I do agree with you regarding timing .

The Chailly sometimes loses momentum and true "flow".

This may sound weird ,but one of the ways I connect to ,or find if I really like a recording is if there is enough "flow" there for me to actually "conduct" along with the music,while listening.
Yes I am indeed one of those.

And with Gilbert´s Mahler 9th that "flow" is there!

Post by fafnir September 1, 2009 (4 of 48)
Chris said:

Sorry ,I should of course have said:

The only other SACD of Mahler´s 9th in my collection.

I am also aware of ,but haven´t heard Tilson Thomas and the SFO.

I do have Mahler´s 7th by them and quite like it .

But in comparison to this new 9th from BIS it is IMO an example of multimiking a bit overdone.

I do agree with you regarding timing .

The Chailly sometimes loses momentum and true "flow".

This may sound weird ,but one of the ways I connect to ,or find if I really like a recording is if there is enough "flow" there for me to actually "conduct" along with the music,while listening.
Yes I am indeed one of those.

And with Gilbert´s Mahler 9th that "flow" is there!

I should have mentioned in my review that my only other SACD of the Ninth is with Chailly. This SACD is not competitive with Gilbert's. However I've also owned Barbirolli, Bernstein/NYP, Solti/LSO and CSO and Giulini. None of these IMHO capture the tragic essence of the Ninth as well as Gilbert. To me this is astonishing, considering his relative youth. To judge by this recording, NY is fortunate to have him assuming position of music director of the NYP.

On the question of tempos, I agree with you completely, especially the last movement, which can easily sound either rushed or dragging. Gilbert gets it just right and the ending is, as I wrote, unforgettable.

Post by jlk155 September 1, 2009 (5 of 48)
fafnir said:

...

On the question of tempos, I agree with you completely, especially the last movement, which can easily sound either rushed or dragging. Gilbert gets it just right and the ending is, as I wrote, unforgettable.

And speaking of tempos, could you kindly list the timings of the individual movements? I've been unable to obtain this information despite extensive Web browsing.

Presumably the total playing time of this single-disc performance is about 80 minutes, since even Solti's fairly brisk 1967 LSO recording takes that long.

Post by bissie September 1, 2009 (6 of 48)
jlk155 said:

And speaking of tempos, could you kindly list the timings of the individual movements? I've been unable to obtain this information despite extensive Web browsing.

Presumably the total playing time of this single-disc performance is about 80 minutes, since even Solti's fairly brisk 1967 LSO recording takes that long.

I'll be happy to oblige:

I. 26'41
II. 15'03
III. 13'07
IV. 26'27

TT: 82'22, thus wasting 8 seconds of valuable possibilities up to the maximum allowed time.

best - Robert

Post by pgmdir September 2, 2009 (7 of 48)
I'm expecting mine in this afternoon's mail....

Post by Fugue September 2, 2009 (8 of 48)
pgmdir said:

I'm expecting mine in this afternoon's mail....

When will it be released in the US?

Post by Kal Rubinson September 2, 2009 (9 of 48)
Fugue said:

When will it be released in the US?

Just announced today as available from the US importer, Qualiton.

Kal

Post by pgmdir September 2, 2009 (10 of 48)
I ordered mine through Arkiv--- got it this afternoon. Just finished listening to a wonderful, beautifully formed Mahler 9. He finds shape and form to this symphony that I have not heard before---from Barbirolli, Boulez, Gielen, Horenstein's BBC,a or Lenny's Berlin recording.

Barbirolli's is the all round quickest, coming in almost 4 minutes shorter--most of that on the last movement. And Boulez' has even a shorter last movement--a full five minutes shorter than Gilbert's.

This is a modern symphony for all it's lovely parts, and modernists Boulez and Gielen highlight those modern qualities. Lenny's Berlin is an amazing performance. Barbirolli's and Horenstein's are fine. But overall, I FEEL that Gilbert has captured the escense of this symphony. Only one listen, but I feel like this will be the one I come to for a long, long time.

Robert's crew has captured this performance superbly. I just now started the first movement again, and I will repeat myself that where the microphones are hung is far more important than anything other than setting gain. Jared Sack's CC recordings may edge this one, but there is nothing to complain about here whatsoever.

Thanks Bissie! Great job! And I am really looking forward to young Mr. Gilberts New York recordings. Let's just hope they will be from a label which releases SACDs.

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