Thread: help with choosing between a SACD and Universal player!?

Posts: 58
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Post by The Seventh Taylor September 9, 2010 (31 of 58)
NordicNorm said:

I'm new to the SACD world, I'm looking to get into Hi-Rez recordings
...
I'm only interested in two channel audio
...

Welcome, Norm.

Of course, you're free to choose but have you heard multichannel SACD? Do you know what you're missing?

Post by sibelius2 September 9, 2010 (32 of 58)
NordicNorm said:

Man!, you guys *really* need to chill out, post less and listen to your hi-rez recordings *a lot* more!?

But why would anyone waste time listening to music, when there's so much fun to be had throwing virtual excrement at each other like a bunch of virtual zoo monkeys?

Of course, the really talented among us can do both at the same time!

Post by pgmdir September 9, 2010 (33 of 58)
NordicNorm said:

You know, as a new subscriber to SA~CD.net, I am amazed that such a simple thread would degenerate so quickly!?

Is the hi-rez world *really* this egotistical?

Man!, you guys *really* need to chill out, post less and listen to your hi-rez recordings *a lot* more!?

I really wasn't trying to start a flame war here (honestly!!!).

cheers,
Norm

This is a sadly accurate portrait of what this forum's been lately. It's a shame.

Norm... I'd rather have the ability to do MC than not, but if you don't care, than there really are a number of good 2 channel player you can be very happy with that don't cost more than the excellent special edition Oppo. But I I have to admit, I like to keep my options open. Give me around a grand to spend, and it would be nice to be able to watch a movie, or explore MC some day.

Regardless, you've had plenty of good suggestions here. You will love the high resolution sound that SACD can give you, regardless of the number of channels.

Right now I'm listening to an old Brubeck on RBCD---and I'm delighted. Yes, my new Fischer Dvorak 7 is light years ahead, but the secret is to listen to SACD's AFTER you've been listening to RBCD's NOT before.

Finally, a reminder that your speakers, and their placement, probably have more to do with overall enjoyment than any other single factor.

Bill

Post by hiredfox September 10, 2010 (34 of 58)
clem said:

I am happy with all my Denon products, they have worked well and their support staff are great..As regrads to sound, well in all in the be-holders ears. Actually its nice were all diffrent ..I try to buy on the latest technical specification and Denon shines thur each time and others do well also.. On top of that D&M holdings share and sell much of the high end sound..

My final thoughts always turn to weight.Good electronic products are heavy, transformers bulky...How much per pound ?

D & M Holdings seem to have some brand issues that need sorting out urgently. To a customer such as me it makes very little sense for the Marantz and Denon brands to compete head-on. It seems wasteful and is not helpful to buyers.

For example, to what extent are components and internal designs shared? Are we really looking at distinctly separate products of unique design or badge engineering? Are we comparing apples with pears or apples with apples. If the former then that is surely corporate madness! If the latter then at least acknowledge it as such so that buyers know what they are buying into.

Marantz might be forgiven their Blu-ray foray provided that they have done so to promote hi-res forms of PCM such as DXD without the need to convert to DSD.

Logically, Denon ought to concentrate on AV and Marantz on Audio, then we would be spared this nonsense of a 'Denon sound' and a 'Marantz sound'. If D & M Holdings truly believe in the magic and mystery of Ken Ishiwata then why undermine that belief by promoting an alternative philosophy via the back door?

Of course it matters to buyers because the Denon R&D bucks and the Marantz R&D bucks might achieve significantly more technical advancement if pooled rather than spent on the separate whims of two marketing directors (VP's) and two research directors (VP's) travelling more-or-less in the same directions.

Post by clem September 10, 2010 (35 of 58)
hiredfox said:

D & M Holdings seem to have some brand issues that need sorting out urgently. To a customer such as me it makes very little sense for the Marantz and Denon brands to compete head-on. It seems wasteful and is not helpful to buyers.

For example, to what extent are components and internal designs shared? Are we really looking at distinctly separate products of unique design or badge engineering? Are we comparing apples with pears or apples with apples. If the former then that is surely corporate madness! If the latter then at least acknowledge it as such so that buyers know what they are buying into.

Manufactuering all comes down to ensuring, protecting, gaining market share. A large manufacture spreads risk and cost. Goal is to keep the factory running.

When one company buys a brand, creates a new one or even resurrects an old brand, they are looking to gain/protect market share. They use shared services to support and spread out cost. Logistics, repair, storage, admin, etc etc and sometimes even engineering is the same fixed cost. With multiple brands, cost is lower. Therefore the unit FOB to market is cheaper.

When it comes to competing against the competition, the manufacture has several choices brands to offer at the same time with different value added services and features.
Many times a company bids with three of its brands (little differences), against other companies that have only one brand. So it comes down to three choices against one.. Better odds. Insomuch the parent company competes with lower cost and better strategy.


The up side is an each brand can then take risks with marketing and technology; they may not have to add to all brands till successful. If successful they move it to other brands at little cost, and lower risk of failure. Marketing strategy moves to each brand when success occurs with its sister brand..

Post by NordicNorm September 10, 2010 (36 of 58)
pgmdir said:


Norm... I'd rather have the ability to do MC than not, but if you don't care, than there really are a number of good 2 channel player you can be very happy with that don't cost more than the excellent special edition Oppo. But I I have to admit, I like to keep my options open. Give me around a grand to spend, and it would be nice to be able to watch a movie, or explore MC some day.

Regardless, you've had plenty of good suggestions here. You will love the high resolution sound that SACD can give you, regardless of the number of channels.

Right now I'm listening to an old Brubeck on RBCD---and I'm delighted. Yes, my new Fischer Dvorak 7 is light years ahead, but the secret is to listen to SACD's AFTER you've been listening to RBCD's NOT before.

Finally, a reminder that your speakers, and their placement, probably have more to do with overall enjoyment than any other single factor.

Bill

Thanks Bill!

I have to admit I'm totally ignorant of the multi-channel world!? My only knowledge of MC comes from friends who have these tiny speakers in various positions around their room. Needless to say, I haven't ever been impressed with the sonic quality of them. They all were using them for playback while watching movies.

My Luxman LV-105u amp does allow me to hook up 2 pairs of speakers. Are 4 speakers enough to enjoy MC?

I know how to position speakers for 2 channel audio, but I'm completely at a loss for MC?

cheers,
Norm

Post by NordicNorm September 10, 2010 (37 of 58)
The Seventh Taylor said:

Welcome, Norm.

Of course, you're free to choose but have you heard multichannel SACD? Do you know what you're missing?

Hi 7!

No, I haven't heard MC SACD.

I am open to the idea though, I just need to learn more about it (e.g. number of speakers, placement, etc.).

cheers,
Norm

Post by sordidman September 10, 2010 (38 of 58)
""if I wanted to get into higher end SACD players, are 4 or 5 year old audiophile players (i.e. Marantz, Bel Canto, Krell) worth considering? I've seen some players, which originally cost $5K - $6K, selling for $1K! Or have the components improved dramatically over that period (i.e. an Oppo 83SE has the same quality in components as a 5 yr old Krell)?""

Hello, the Krell SACD player has had a number of transport issues, - I've heard of several very unhappy people complaining about the collapse of their transports. The Marantz SA11, - not the version two, - had crappy redbook sound, - IMO.
My test was with a BenchMark DAC that we tossed on the digital outs of that player and the sub $1000 Benchmark DAC blew away the internal redbook of the Marantz.

My short answer is no. But, - of course, - I haven't heard the whole group of those 5K SACD players that are 5 years or older.

IMO, Ayre is making great products and their new $6K player may be one that you might want to look at. People are unloading stuff on Audiogon all of the time, - so that "CAN POSSIBLY" be a good resource.

Based on what you just said, - it is my opinion that you should be looking for a great redbook/SACD combo player, with SACD as an afterthought, - so that you can still play your redbook discs, and have them EXCEL: IMO, - this leaves Sony out of the mix, but not perhaps the Marantz SA7s. But that's still a $7K player. Sadly, - there's no free lunch and great redbook in combination with great SACD performance does not come cheap.

Cheers,

Post by Disbeliever September 10, 2010 (39 of 58)
This definately does not leave Sony out of the mix as it probably the only player on the market worth the price of admission for both RBCD & SACD & has as far as I am aware the lowest distortion & jitter.SACD sounds best in mch.

Post by rammiepie September 10, 2010 (40 of 58)
NordicNorm said:

Hi 7!

No, I haven't heard MC SACD.

I am open to the idea though, I just need to learn more about it (e.g. number of speakers, placement, etc.).

cheers,
Norm

Norm, I am using four full~range speakers for surround in two of my systems but in that case you'll new a Universal player and program it to eliminate the center and subs (it will then split the center between the two fronts) But for this you'll need full~range speakers.

But I'm afraid that neither your amp nor pre~amp are multi~channel so that null and voids any m/c aspirations.

If you did hear a good multi~channel set up I think you would be quite amazed at the immersive sound one can derive and since one of the great pleasures of SACD is its ability to play m/c, you might want to consider that as a future option.

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