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Discussion: Brahms: Symphony No. 4 - Haitink

Posts: 20
Page: 1 2 next

Post by Ken_P March 25, 2005 (1 of 20)
Does anyone know when this is going to be released in the US? I can find the RBCD, but not the SACD. I heard this performance on a radio broadcast a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it. I'd love to have it on SACD, but I don't want to pay to import it.

Post by mdt March 25, 2005 (2 of 20)
Ken_P said:

Does anyone know when this is going to be released in the US? I can find the RBCD, but not the SACD. I heard this performance on a radio broadcast a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it. I'd love to have it on SACD, but I don't want to pay to import it.

In the case of Brahms 4th i'd go without SA-CD and go for Carlos Kleiber on remastered RBCD.

Post by Ken_P March 25, 2005 (3 of 20)
mdt said:

In the case of Brahms 4th i'd go without SA-CD and go for Carlos Kleiber on remastered RBCD.

I may be the only one, but I'm not a big Kleiber fan. I've never been all that impressed with the legendary Beethoven 5 & 7 performances (they're ok, but not all that remarkable, IMO), and while I'm not as familiar with his Brahms, my impression of that is similar.

Also, I asked specifically about this recording since I liked what I heard and want to hear it in SACD. If I wanted recommendations for a different recording I would have said so.

Post by mdt March 26, 2005 (4 of 20)
Ken_P said:

I may be the only one, but I'm not a big Kleiber fan. I've never been all that impressed with the legendary Beethoven 5 & 7 performances (they're ok, but not all that remarkable, IMO), and while I'm not as familiar with his Brahms, my impression of that is similar.

Also, I asked specifically about this recording since I liked what I heard and want to hear it in SACD. If I wanted recommendations for a different recording I would have said so.

Agreed on the Beethoven 5&7 , prefere Karajan from 62 on those, which is on SA-CD. Like Kleibers recording of Brahms Fourth alltough, suggested it because i have Haitinks Brahms 3 (on SA-CD)and was dissapointed.

Post by Ken_P March 26, 2005 (5 of 20)
mdt said:

Agreed on the Beethoven 5&7 , prefere Karajan from 62 on those, which is on SA-CD. Like Kleibers recording of Brahms Fourth alltough, suggested it because i have Haitinks Brahms 3 (on SA-CD)and was dissapointed.
Sorry for having overestimated you, i thought you were a real music lover informed about Brahms. Dissapointing to see that your harsh answer unmasks you as being much less.

I have the Haitink Brahms 3 as well, and I like it. It's not the best performance out there, but I think it has some good qualities.

Tell me, what exactly is a "real music lover"? Is there some sort of criteria that I'm failing to meet? Does my music degree disqualify me somehow because I can no longer listen to music on a purely emotional level and actually have to think about what I'm hearing? Do the multiple biographies I've read of Brahms make me somehow less informed than if I was just listening to the music?

I only asked a simple question regarding the US release of this recording. I was certainly not intending to get into a flame war. I'm sorry now that I asked an innocent question. I'll know better in the future.

Post by mdt March 26, 2005 (6 of 20)
Ken_P said:
.

Tell me, what exactly is a "real music lover"? Is there some sort of criteria that I'm failing to meet? Does my music degree disqualify me somehow because I can no longer listen to music on a purely emotional level and actually have to think about what I'm hearing? Do the multiple biographies I've read of Brahms make me somehow less informed than if I was just listening to the music?

I only asked a simple question regarding the US release of this recording. I was certainly not intending to get into a flame war. I'm sorry now that I asked an innocent question. I'll know better in the future.

Of course being able to judge a musical perfomance from an academic point of view doesn't make you less of a music lover, all the better if you can.
Nor is there anything wrong with your question.
What put me off, was the agressive undertone in: "If i wanted recommendations for a different recording i would have said so.", specially since i started my post with a compliment to your obvious knowledge of Brahms.
I was actually looking forward to some interesting exchange on the matter, between two people loving music, instead i got a harsh remark terminating the discussion before it started, and coldly stating that you wanted your question answered and only that.

Post by Ken_P March 27, 2005 (7 of 20)
mdt said:

Of course being able to judge a musical perfomance from an academic point of view doesn't make you less of a music lover, all the better if you can.
Nor is there anything wrong with your question.
What put me off, was the agressive undertone in: "If i wanted recommendations for a different recording i would have said so.", specially since i started my post with a compliment to your obvious knowledge of Brahms.
I was actually looking forward to some interesting exchange on the matter, between two people loving music, instead i got a harsh remark terminating the discussion before it started, and coldly stating that you wanted your question answered and only that.

In looking back at my response, it does seem a bit harsh. I apologize. I hope we can still have a more civil discussion about the merits and flaws of Brahms recordings. Why exactly would you recommend the Kleiber over this (or any other recording, for that matter)?

Post by sgb March 27, 2005 (8 of 20)
Sorry to be joining the party late, Ken. I have no knowledge of this particular Haitink recording. Is this a remaster of one of his earlier Philips recordings, or a recent one?

The Brahms Fourth has always been one of my favorites (although I'll confess to liking the the first 2 more on an emotional level, and the third the least), and my favorite is Reiner's old Royal Philharmonic recording. In checking my collection database, I see that my only Haitink Brahms is the Violin Concerto with Krebbers. Based on this, I should probably be pursuing this Fourth.

Might I impose on you to contribute to the new forum on a survey of classical music listeners I posted just moments ago?

Post by stvnharr March 27, 2005 (9 of 20)
Ken_P said:

Does anyone know when this is going to be released in the US? I can find the RBCD, but not the SACD. I heard this performance on a radio broadcast a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it. I'd love to have it on SACD, but I don't want to pay to import it.

Ken,
You can get it from MDT for the same price, and get it now. Not sure when this will be released in US, but likely in the next month or so.

Post by mdt April 5, 2005 (10 of 20)
Ken_P said:

In looking back at my response, it does seem a bit harsh. I apologize. I hope we can still have a more civil discussion about the merits and flaws of Brahms recordings. Why exactly would you recommend the Kleiber over this (or any other recording, for that matter)?

What fascinates me, is the flow it has to it. The music simply swept me along. Everything seemed to develop absolutely naturally out of the other,particularly in the way he builds up a climax. I felt i was just hearing beautyful music, but not the actual manual work behind it (as Mozart said: "it is difficult, but one can't hear that it is difficult, and that's the real thing"). I think technically speaking, it would be the choice of tempi and the phrasing that i find just right.

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