Thread: real DSD playback and recording

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Post by AmonRa August 23, 2011 (51 of 62)
audioholik said:

BB PCM1704 (24/96kHz with 8X oversampling) (e-bay link)

Is this a chinese copy of the Burr-Brown chip from the year 1995? Hardly state-of-the-art anymore, and quality? If genuine B-B converters are that cheap, fine.

Besides I was mostly talking about A/D converters making pure PCM without 1-bit front end, not DACs.

Post by yair August 24, 2011 (52 of 62)
tailspn said:
The 8X192 Mytek can input DSD only in SDIF, and the new Stereo 192 either through SDIF or USB 2.0. There are as yet no transports that output DSD over SDIF or USB 2.0.

I'm sorry,but I didn't understand the last sentence. SDIF 3 is for connecting DSD equipment, as you said yourself. What does the last sentence refer to?

Post by tailspn August 24, 2011 (53 of 62)
yair said:

What does the last sentence refer to?

Hello,

I was responding to your comment/question about the Sony BX38 player. "It has a digital output, so could be connected to a DSD DAC such as the Mytek for instance?" The answer is no with the Mytek, (or any other stand-along DSD capable DAC) as I described with the Sony BX38. The same is true for all other available SACD players. The topic can not be discussed further on SA-CD.net. Mail me if you would like to discuss.

The Sony BX38, or any other SACD capable player with an HDMI output can be interfaced to a HDMI receiver, and play SACDs.

Post by audioholik August 26, 2011 (54 of 62)
tailspn said:

Actually, that's an urban myth. The Sonoma itself can do very complex edits on up to 32 channels, including Selection and Region based editing, as well as individual Ingredient based gain changes. All that is necessary to produce a classical music, or acoustical studio pop production.

Mastering is a different story if artificial post production effects, like limiting, compression, EQ, non analog reverb etc are to be added. For this, the DSD image must be converted to PCM. The majority of that work is done on Pyramix workstations in DXD format.

The Sonoma operation manual is here:

http://superaudiocenter.com/images/SonomaUserGuide21.pdf

Tailspn, do you know if the new DSD DAW from Korg uses the Sony e-chip or is it a new chip developed by Korg. And by the way, are 1 micro second edits possible on any of the current PCM DAW's? http://blog.emusician.com/the_bus/2010/11/07/aes-day-2-highlights/

Post by AmonRa August 26, 2011 (55 of 62)
audioholik said:

And by the way, are 1 micro second edits possible on any of the current PCM DAW's?

Funny and revealing question. With a PCM DAW the shortest possible edit is a straight cut from one file to another without fades. Instantenious. Usually there must be some kind of a crossfade, as the waveform will contain an unnatural angle (heard as a high frequency click) at the connection point. The shortest possible crossfade is the averaging of the end samples together, the length is (1/sample rate). That would be about 10 microseconds in length for 96 kHz saple rate recording.

Post by audioholik August 26, 2011 (56 of 62)
AmonRa said:

Funny and revealing question. With a PCM DAW the shortest possible edit is a straight cut from one file to another without fades. Instantenious. Usually there must be some kind of a crossfade, as the waveform will contain an unnatural angle (heard as a high frequency click) at the connection point. The shortest possible crossfade is the averaging of the end samples together, the length is (1/sample rate). That would be about 10 microseconds in length for 96 kHz saple rate recording.

OK, so it's 1microsecond vs 10microseconds. What about the chip then, is it a new KORG DSD chip or an updated version of Sony's e-chip?

Post by tailspn August 26, 2011 (57 of 62)
audioholik said:

Tailspn, do you know if the new DSD DAW from Korg uses the Sony e-chip or is it a new chip developed by Korg.

The E-Chip is no longer available, but Sony is still making Vaio Laptops with a like functioning chip. The link to the Krog DAW preview makes it look like it's a software app, so there may be no hardware involved, other than I/O.

Post by AmonRa August 26, 2011 (58 of 62)
audioholik said:

OK, so it's 1microsecond vs 10microseconds.

No, it is not. DSD and PCM work on different priciples, it is not relevant to compare sample rates or imagined edit lengths. Like I said, edits without fades are 0 microseconds long in PCM, in DSD that kind of edits are impossible, as each 1-bit sample is a reference to the previous one. Two DSD files can not be just spliced together at all without some level manipulation (cross fade), PCM files can.

The whole question just shows the tecnical ignorance of the person making it.

Post by audioholik August 26, 2011 (59 of 62)
tailspn said:

The E-Chip is no longer available, but Sony is still making Vaio Laptops with a like functioning chip. The link to the Krog DAW preview makes it look like it's a software app, so there may be no hardware involved, other than I/O.

Thanks for the info. I'm curious when it will be released and if it will be competitively priced to Sonoma.

@AmonRa, 10microseconds is not that bad, don't worry...

Post by AmonRa August 26, 2011 (60 of 62)
audioholik said:

@AmonRa, 10microseconds is not that bad, don't worry...

No, but I worry about DSD editing, where instant edits are not possible like in PCM. Zero edit length in PCM, at least one microsecond in DSD. DSD is so problematic what comes to editing, sorry about that.

=:-)

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