Thread: Sony SCD-C2000ES Can't read SACD layer on Hybrid SACD

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Post by truelies July 2, 2014 (1 of 40)
It can only read out the CD layer, not the SACD layer. But if only single SACD layer, it will read it.

Searched internet, looks like have two solutions
1. clean the lens with clean disc, which I already did but no good
2. Increase the read head power, any instruction on how to do this?

Sony SACD must have design problem, how can CD works, but SACD can't?

Post by sylvian July 3, 2014 (2 of 40)
Reading the hybrids is not only problem with this specific player.....it might happen practically to any other player after some years of perfect service.

Cleaning the lens periodically (after playback some 100 discs or twice a year) is mandatory, but it is not solution to your problem.

Increasing the power to the lens is a way, but it cannot be done in a home environment without professional tools. You should hand your player to nearest service and let them to do so.

I had witnessed similar problem with ONKYO CS5VL after 3 years from the purchase date. It refused to playback sa-cd layer on some (not every) hybrid discs but single layer could be played flawlessly. It has something to do with bad resistor sitting on a power circuitry.

High-end machinery is not affected, since the solid build and also the higher price assure lifetime service assembly line products cannot offer.

Post by Lunna July 3, 2014 (3 of 40)
Completely off topic, but I don't want to create a separate thread just for this: I actually have the opposite problem with one hybrid SACD on my Oppo - it plays the SACD layer perfectly, but does not correctly play all the tracks of the CD layer (the last three or four tracks are unplayable - the CD simply 'stalls' at that point). Wondering, is there a "Hybrid 101" explanation for this phenomenon. (I'm relieved, though, that it is the SACD layer, and not the CD layer, that plays correctly!)

Post by sylvian July 4, 2014 (4 of 40)
CD layer on a SA-CD disc? Who pay attention to it? Me certainly not.....there is no use for me to listen to low-res when higher-res is available. I understand this concept when somebody wants to use such disc in different environment or with different equipment (not always capable to play SA-CD layer) but after the availability to play SA-CD even in your car stereo the existence of hybrids do not make any sense. Pardon me!

Post by Yoropiko1 July 4, 2014 (5 of 40)
Lunna said:

Completely off topic, but I don't want to create a separate thread just for this: I actually have the opposite problem with one hybrid SACD on my Oppo - it plays the SACD layer perfectly, but does not correctly play all the tracks of the CD layer (the last three or four tracks are unplayable - the CD simply 'stalls' at that point). Wondering, is there a "Hybrid 101" explanation for this phenomenon. (I'm relieved, though, that it is the SACD layer, and not the CD layer, that plays correctly!)

I'm making a wild guess here but I suspect that when the Oppo " sees " a SACD it focuses its laser to read the SACD layer by default, when it " sees " a RBCD it focuses its laser to read the CD layer ( which of course is the only one anyway ). A hybrid SACD of course has both layers but I wonder if in doing so makes its CD layer technically out of spec with the red book standard ( same as the dualdiscs don't work in every CD player for example ), thus why you are experiencing the issue you mention. I assume that this problem doesn't manifest itself on all your hybrid SACDs? Just out of curiosity, does the affected SACDs CD layer play OK on a CD player without SACD playback capability?

Post by Iain July 4, 2014 (6 of 40)
My Sony BDP-S770 from 2010, developed an intermittent drop-out when playing SA-CD multi-channel layer in late 2012. My resolution for it at the time was replacement with current machine, Sony BDP-S790. It's been sitting in the closet since then.

Wonder if a simple, permanent resolution such as cleaning the laser will resolve the problem, or is it completely stuffed?

Post by Lunna July 4, 2014 (7 of 40)
Yoropiko1 said:

I'm making a wild guess here but I suspect that when the Oppo " sees " a SACD it focuses its laser to read the SACD layer by default, when it " sees " a RBCD it focuses its laser to read the CD layer ( which of course is the only one anyway ). A hybrid SACD of course has both layers but I wonder if in doing so makes its CD layer technically out of spec with the red book standard ( same as the dualdiscs don't work in every CD player for example ), thus why you are experiencing the issue you mention. I assume that this problem doesn't manifest itself on all your hybrid SACDs? Just out of curiosity, does the affected SACDs CD layer play OK on a CD player without SACD playback capability?

Hi, thanks both of you for the responses. Of course, the main thing is that the SACD version plays correctly. Yes, I've tried to play the CD version on my old Onkyo multi-disc CD player, as well as directly off my computer, and I have the same problem with the last three or four tracks - whirring sound and then freeze up. There's a visible scratch (which freaked me out when I first got the disc) towards the outer edge (I don't have the disc in front of me now - I think it's there), and I suspect that is causing the CD playback problem. Fortunately, this is the only disc where I've had this issue.

So, my interest really is more academic, that is, it goes really to how these hybrid discs are made/layered, which I'm sure has been discussed countless times already, since my instinct (caveat: I'm definitely and obviously not technologically gifted) would tell me that the more complicated SACD layer would be the one to suffer, rather than the basic Red Book layer.

The disc, by the way, is the Romeros Mercury Living Presence hybrid. (Fortunately, I have one other copy, which plays perfectly both SACD and redbook).

Thanks again for any insight ...

Post by sylvian July 4, 2014 (8 of 40)
the sa-cd layer is always the lower one from reading lens perspective and of course different power goes to the lens to read it than rbcd which lays upper from the sa-cd and uses different power and pits are thicker and thus easily to read them for zour machine. I am more and more convinced to use dedicated plaeyr for each type of disc.

Post by Lunna July 4, 2014 (9 of 40)
sylvian said:

the sa-cd layer is always the lower one from reading lens perspective and of course different power goes to the lens to read it than rbcd which lays upper from the sa-cd and uses different power and pits are thicker and thus easily to read them for zour machine. I am more and more convinced to use dedicated plaeyr for each type of disc.

Thanks Sylvian - Do I understand correctly then that the pits are thicker for the SACD layer and easier for my Oppo to read them? I actually do have a dedicated CD player as well, which is all bundled up in storage for now, but it will be interesting to do a comparison when I unpack it again (it's a Creek Destiny 1) ..

Post by Lunna July 4, 2014 (10 of 40)
sylvian said:

the sa-cd layer is always the lower one from reading lens perspective and of course different power goes to the lens to read it than rbcd which lays upper from the sa-cd and uses different power and pits are thicker and thus easily to read them for zour machine. I am more and more convinced to use dedicated plaeyr for each type of disc.

Thanks Sylvian - Do I understand correctly then that the pits are thicker for the SACD layer and easier for my Oppo to read them? I actually do have a dedicated CD player as well, which is all bundled up in storage for now, but it will be interesting to do a comparison when I unpack it again (it's a Creek Destiny 1) ..

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