Thread: 44.1 khz input?

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Post by Fordiebianco October 26, 2014 (1 of 16)
Hi All,

I have a Denon 3313UD for my SACD needs and a recently acquired Onkyo TX-NR636, hooked up via HDMI.

Playing my favourite of all my SACDs, the brillant 'Nightly' by Donald Fagen, the receiver reports correctly getting a DSD 2.0 signal, but at 44.1 kHz.

I thought SACD is being encoded at 2.8224 MHz ?

Can someone explain the discrepancy?

FB

Post by Iain October 26, 2014 (2 of 16)
Fordiebianco said:

Hi All,

I have a Denon 3313UD for my SACD needs and a recently acquired Onkyo TX-NR636, hooked up via HDMI.

Playing my favourite of all my SACDs, the brillant 'Nightly' by Donald Fagen, the receiver reports correctly getting a DSD 2.0 signal, but at 44.1 kHz.

I thought SACD is being encoded at 2.8224 MHz ?

Can someone explain the discrepancy?

FB

Sounds as though you're playing the CD layer.

Have you configured your machine for playback of 2 channel or multi-channel DSD?

Also, is your Onkyo capable of processing DSD bitstream?

Post by AmonRa October 26, 2014 (3 of 16)
Do I remember correctly that DSD streaming over HDMI works as a stream of 44.1 kHz packages, which causes amps to indicate 44.1 kHz while actually pure DSD data is transferred? Just a fleeting thought.

Post by Iain October 26, 2014 (4 of 16)
AmonRa said:

Do I remember correctly that DSD streaming over HDMI works as a stream of 44.1 kHz packages, which causes amps to indicate 44.1 kHz while actually pure DSD data is transferred? Just a fleeting thought.

Not heard of that before.

FWIW, when I had the AVR-3310 and my BDP was decimating the DSD bitstream to PCM, AVR GUI indicated a multi-channel PCM input of 176.4 kHz.

With the AVR-3313 which is capable of processing DSD bitstream, GUI simply indicates DSD.

Post by Yoropiko1 October 26, 2014 (5 of 16)
Denons own high end DBP-4010UD was some what strange in only offering DSD streaming via its own propriety Denon link, and curiously only allowing SACD via HDMI as a converted PCM 44.1Khz signal!

I am wondering if this is the same with your model and thus is the reason why your Onkyo is displaying the received signal correctly as 44.1Khz. You will need to check your manual for your player but given this issue occurs in the DBP-4010UD it is not unlikely it wouldn't do the same in your model.

Very unusual given most players will stream DSD via HDMI ( unless the receiver forces a PCM conversion due to incompatibility on its end )

Post by Iain October 26, 2014 (6 of 16)
Yoropiko1 said:

Denons own high end DBP-4010UD was some what strange in only offering DSD streaming via its own propriety Denon link, and curiously only allowing SACD via HDMI as a converted PCM 44.1Khz signal!

I am wondering if this is the same with your model and thus is the reason why your Onkyo is displaying the received signal correctly as 44.1Khz. You will need to check your manual for your player but given this issue occurs in the DBP-4010UD it is not unlikely it wouldn't do the same in your model.

Very unusual given most players will stream DSD via HDMI ( unless the receiver forces a PCM conversion due to incompatibility on its end )

Denon Link HD is only possible with the DBP-3313 and AVR-3313, AVR-X4000 or AVR-X4100.

It's a proprietary solution of those specific bits of kit.

Post by Ubertrout October 26, 2014 (7 of 16)
A number of receivers show a dsd signal as 44.1 khz, even though it's being processed correctly. Likely no cause for concern (this is the 44.1 khz packets thing-its 64 x 44.1)

Post by Yoropiko1 October 27, 2014 (8 of 16)
Iain said:

Denon Link HD is only possible with the DBP-3313 and AVR-3313, AVR-X4000 or AVR-X4100.

It's a proprietary solution of those specific bits of kit.

Denon Link ( 4th ) is availible on the DBP-4010UD and will bitstream DSD to a Denon receiver likewise assuming it too has the same input connection ( the older ethernet style socket isnt compatible with the newer Denon Link HD phono connector ). However I agree, that using a receiver from another brand would yield no benefit due to its proprietary nature. My assumption is that Denon expect anybody buying into its higher end Universal Disc players will mate it with one of their own compatible denon link receivers, thus perhaps why in the DBP-4010UD they restricted SACD via HDMI to be output at 44.1KHz only. Bit shortsighted of Denon really making the assumption that a potential buyer would only use their player with one of their compatible receivers because this immediately makes bitstreamsing DSD impossible unless the propriety solution is used.
Basically my point was that that the issue the OP was experiencing could be that his Onkyo is only showing 44.1Khz input signal simply because that might be exactly what is being received. In other words his own Denon Player might be doing the same thing to SACD playback over HDMI as the DBP-4010UD does. Of course it could be as other posters have mentioned that he is getting the full resolution of DSD being passed via HDMI but his Onkyo describes it as 44.1Khz because it is a multiple of DSDs 2.8224 sampling frequency.
Given both scenarios, the OP would need to consult Denon to find out if his player is capable of full rez DSD bitstreaming via HDMI to determine why his Onkyo shows 44.1Khz in its display.

Post by AmonRa October 27, 2014 (9 of 16)
From the sidelines: if DSD is so vastly superior to PCM and especially 44.1 kHz PCM, one should be able to instantly hear if DSD is being passed intact, or if it is converted to lowly CD quality.

If one can not, what does it matter?

Post by Disbeliever October 27, 2014 (10 of 16)
AmonRa said:

From the sidelines: if DSD is so vastly superior to PCM and especially 44.1 kHz PCM, one should be able to instantly hear if DSD is being passed intact, or if it is converted to lowly CD quality.

If one can not, what does it matter?

I agree

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