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Discussion: Dohnanyi: Variations on a Nursery Song etc. - Dohnanyi, Starker

Posts: 11
Page: 1 2 next

Post by fotodan May 17, 2008 (1 of 11)
I'm assuming this is the 1956 recording of the nursery song variations and piano concerto. Has Praga made a deal with EMI to release back catalog on SACD? Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Post by raffells May 18, 2008 (2 of 11)
fotodan said:

I'm assuming this is the 1956 recording of the nursery song variations and piano concerto. Has Praga made a deal with EMI to release back catalog on SACD? Wouldn't that be wonderful?

At this number of years are we not getting to the point where no permission is required,ie public domain.?
Must admit to interest and curiosity but concern as to whether the quality is going to be there.

Post by Peter May 19, 2008 (3 of 11)
raffells said:

At this number of years are we not getting to the point where no permission is required,ie public domain.?
Must admit to interest and curiosity but concern as to whether the quality is going to be there.

You don't need permission to release if you're using source material which is over 50 years old. In this case, I hope they've leased the EMI tapes, otherwise it'll have to a transfer from LP.

There's a very interesting article here:

http://www.hungarianquarterly.com/no175/14.html

Peter

Post by raffells May 19, 2008 (4 of 11)
Peter said:

You don't need permission to release if you're using source material which is over 50 years old. In this case, I hope they've leased the EMI tapes, otherwise it'll have to a transfer from LP.

There's a very interesting article here:

http://www.hungarianquarterly.com/no175/14.html

Peter

Thanks for that info Peter,I suppose that raises hopes for reissues of the famous Decca recordings which really started to take off around that time.
Interestingly I remember that Nursery Song as a mono only issue.I could be wrong but I noticed it was released as a stereo CD many years later.
I suppose the Katchen version held sway for so many years that I cannot remember any other "hit" versions.
I personally retained a Hungaroton Budapest version only because it had Ruralia Hungarica on the other side.
Only thing is that this posting once again reminds us how little we have on sacd and how much we could wish for.

Post by Peter June 18, 2008 (5 of 11)
.....producer, Lawrance Collingwood. It seems the line is truncated.

Thanks, John, for such a full and interesting review.

I enjoyed the Vars hugely, and thought the restoration very good indeed, better than that on the EMI Studio CD I have, though Katchen/Boult have a bit more spark. Starker is placed quite forward in the 'cello piece and it was good to hear his playing and be reminded of the talented Walter Susskind. But, like John, I'm pretty sure this is mono, though it was recorded in stereo, as it was available as such in a fine EMI series, Artist Portraits. The piano concerto's recording hasn't worn well, but the performance by old man Dohnanyi is worth reviving. As John says, this strangely seems to be derived from a vinyl transfer, and not a great one, at that. In this day of sophisticated computer software there's really no excuse for pops and bangs. Headphone listening will confirm whether the Starker item is vinyl sourced, too. Certainly the master tapes weren't used for this or the piano concerto; I do wonder now about the source for the Vars. Snap this up if EMI/Japan issues it, as on RBCD the result will be far superior overall.

If you have the EMI CD and only want the Vars, stick with it, as the sound improvement is not huge. If the whole programme appeals, do remember these are historic documents (and historic recordings 52 years old) so if you're looking for modern sound you will be disappointed.

Peter

edited 19 June

Post by Peter June 19, 2008 (6 of 11)
fotodan said:

I'm assuming this is the 1956 recording of the nursery song variations and piano concerto. Has Praga made a deal with EMI to release back catalog on SACD? Wouldn't that be wonderful?

It seems to me, there's been no deal, alas.

Pops and bangs are unnecessary condiments for enjoying the taste of historic recordings. I will guess these are just out of copyright issues with no access to the masters. Comment, Praga?

Post by canonical March 21, 2009 (7 of 11)
I appear to have stumbled into this debate by chance, by posting a comment in the review section ... without first being aware of this prior discussion. The comment I posted was a snippet from an Amazon review by Charles Rileigh who expresses a warning regarding this SACD. He writes:

"I was suspicious when I opened the disc and saw no thanks or acknowlegement to EMI for their tapes. .... We get fine sounding copies of both the Nursery Variations and Cello Concerto (probably copied from the EMI compact discs), but the Piano Concerto #2 sounds horrible. It appears to have been copied from a vinyl disc (although a very quiet one), and the sound is substandard when compared to that on the Cello Concerto and Nursery Variations."


Based on the comments above, it does seem that Praga have, in fact, just ripped this off an LP. I think the caveat to buyers is appropriate.

Post by Peter March 21, 2009 (8 of 11)
Peter said:

Starker is placed quite forward in the 'cello piece and it was good to hear his playing and be reminded of the talented Walter Susskind. But, like John, I'm pretty sure this is mono, though it was recorded in stereo, as it was available as such in a fine EMI series, Artist Portraits.

Peter

edited 19 June

The Concert Piece has just been reissued by EMI in the Gemini series of 2CD sets, together with more Dohnanyi and Goldmark.

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//2643192.htm

Post by canonical March 21, 2009 (9 of 11)
Peter wrote:

> You don't need permission to release if you're using source material which is over 50 years old.

Is that correct? I assume a work with orchestra goes under Corporate Authorship (rather than personal). And, according to Wiki ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_authorship

... it would be 70 years from creation for a work of corporate authorship in the European Union. It does refer to transitional arrangements for works created before 1993 - no idea what they are.

If you pop over to:

http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/

and head down to the section on SOUND RECORDINGS, ... etc

Post by Peter March 21, 2009 (10 of 11)
canonical said:

Peter wrote:

> You don't need permission to release if you're using source material which is over 50 years old.

Is that correct?

Yes, it is, for the moment in the EU.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3560665/EU-strikes-the-wrong-note-on-copyright.html

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