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Discussion: Beethoven: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 3 - Brautigam, Parrott

Posts: 13
Page: 1 2 next

Post by seth May 30, 2008 (1 of 13)
I just received this disc tonight.

The best way to describe it is: Beethoven piano concertos played with a chamber group. It's HIP in terms of vibrato and phrasing, but the sound of the orchestra is intensionally small. Gardiner's period orchestra, for instance, makes far more noise and has a much wider dynamic range in their recording. Gardiner is symphonic while this orchestra is playing the orchestral part as chamber music.

Brautigam plays the piano with stylistic traits borrowed from playing fortepianos -- lots of quick attacks of the keyboard.

Not sure what to make of the recordings yet, but I suspect many people will not like them.

Post by Peter May 31, 2008 (2 of 13)
At least one doesn't already! (It wasn't me - I've not heard this yet.) Do I guess correctly these performances are less provocative than Mustonen's?

Peter

Post by andrewb May 31, 2008 (3 of 13)
seth said:

I just received this disc tonight.

The best way to describe it is: Beethoven piano concertos played with a chamber group. It's HIP in terms of vibrato and phrasing, but the sound of the orchestra is intensionally small. Gardiner's period orchestra, for instance, makes far more noise and has a much wider dynamic range in their recording. Gardiner is symphonic while this orchestra is playing the orchestral part as chamber music.

Brautigam plays the piano with stylistic traits borrowed from playing fortepianos -- lots of quick attacks of the keyboard.

Not sure what to make of the recordings yet, but I suspect many people will not like them.

Thanks for these first thoughts.

What you describe, small orchestra and fortepiano style, sounds very attractive to me, though I agree many may not like it. They can always wait for the Sudbin/Vanska versions, which will probably be suitably large scale and romantic, and be more widely accepted.

I note that Brautigam is performing the first concerto with the Orchestra of the 19th Century and a fortepiano in Europe this August, Immerseel is the conducter. I have to say I wish BIS had recorded that combination rather than a modern piano/orchestra with Andrew Parrot.
Still, I eagerly await my copy, the release of which seems to be delayed here in the UK.

Post by andrewb May 31, 2008 (4 of 13)
Peter said:

At least one doesn't already! (Not I.)

That dis-recommendation of this disc has been there a while. Maybe its another case of a person voting before they have heard the disc!

Post by Peter May 31, 2008 (5 of 13)
andrewb said:

That dis-recommendation of this disc has been there a while. Maybe its another case of a person voting before they have heard the disc!

Mmmm - yes, I've rather lost confidence in the "recommended" numbers......

Post by fafnir May 31, 2008 (6 of 13)
I received this disc a few days ago and have played it twice. If your ideal performance of these concertos is Fleisher/Szell or Bronfman/Zinman (my personal favorites) you may be disappointed in this version. Tempos are extremely fast and the music really is treated as if they are chamber pieces. The HIP style IMHO doesn't help either.

In spite of the excellent sound, I doubt that I will be playing this again.

Bring on the Sudbin/Vanska please ASAP.

Post by wehecht May 31, 2008 (7 of 13)
Perhaps I'm just destined to be the lone contrarian on this one. Yes, the performances are rather like chamber music writ large, a point plainly acknowledged in the notes, and emphasized by the decision to record the piano from a place in the middle of the orchestra and without a lid. Personally I find the approach entirely apposite for these works from 1795-1800 that are not so very far removed from late Mozart. While the sensibility of these performances is chamber music-like these are not downsized performances in the sense of Robert Levin's recording of a reconstructed version, for piano and string quintet, of concerto #4. If you're prepared for an alternative experience of this well known music (and Fleisher/Szell, Perahia/Haitink are my long time favorites) then it's unlikely that you'll hear them better played than Brautigam/Parrott, and almost unthinkable that you'll hear them better recorded.

Post by andrewb August 8, 2008 (8 of 13)
tommwi said:

I was the guy who pushed the first no recommendation button on the BIS Brautigam Beethoven concerto recording (I just read Peter had his doubts about its validity).

and

Peter said:

Thanks for the info about the Beethoven - it's good to know why something isn't recommended, though in my case I'd decided to wait for Sudbin.

The above comments are from the Tchaikovsky 6 Eschenbach thread.

When I received Brautigan's Beethoven 3 disc it was a big disappointment. In the few days after receipt I played the 3rd concerto 3 or 4 times but although I understood what Brautigam and Parrot were doing, with their non-romantic, classical approach I could not enjoy the work. The brief, almost clipped phrasing just did not work for me, even the period instrument performances by Tan/Norrington are more romantic than Brautigam/Parrot.

However, I left the disc on the shelf for a couple of weeks and then one evening decided to give it a last try. Suddenly, it all clicked, and I started to enjoy the performance. Now, I find it to be one of the best and most enjoyable of my purchases in the last few months.

The disc takes a lot of getting used to, over several weeks, as it is very difficult to get rid of those preconceptions, garnered from countless other versions, about how the music should go. I found it useful to approach listening as though expecting a Mozart concerto rather than Beethoven, although it is unmistakedly Beethoven.
This account of the 3rd does not replace the established romantic accounts from Brendel, Perahia, Kovacevich etc. but for me it does rank alongside them in terms of pleasure, giving an extremely facinating and alternative view.

But maybe the disc should be accompanied by a warning: it is so different!

Strange, how sometimes those discs which are initially disappointing turn out to be the best and those that one immediately likes become less interesting over the next months or years.

Post by aoqd22 August 8, 2008 (9 of 13)
I have had numerous recordings of the Beethoven concertos over the years and most have been good but not necessarily that stimulating or refreshing. This disc had and held my attention within a few bars. As I listened parts of the score I knew were there but rarely heard clearly were revealed. The recording I think is ideal. So IMHO a breath of fresh air just like Janina Fialkowska's Mozart Piano Concerto SACD on Atma Classique.

Thoroughly enjoyable more please ...!

Post by terence August 9, 2008 (10 of 13)
very interesting comments.

why not try the generous soundclips at

http://www.bis.se/naxos.php?aID=BIS-SACD-1692

to get an idea of the performance style.

it sounds very fresh and lively to me, and - most importantly to me in beethoven - not unduly portentous, as much beethoven on record is.

also david hurwitz's review is worth reading

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11725

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