Thread: SACD Layers won't play or skipping problems

Posts: 85
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 next

Post by gortonandy November 23, 2008 (1 of 85)
I have occasionally had the disks that won't play their SACD layers properly in some or all of my (three) machines (Sony SCD XA9000ES; Pioneer DV757Ai; Marantz DV9600).
There is skipping and sometimes complete non recognition of the SACD layer (CD layer OK).

The titles affected are:

Strauss - Salome & Elektra (Borkh) RCA LIVING STEREO
Saint Saens - Symphonies Nos 1 & 2 (Inbal) PENTATONE
Janacek - Eternal Gospel (Volkov) HYPERION
Chopin - Nocturnes CD2 (Hewitt) HYPERION

What was interesting is that the first three I had replaced and the replacements were exactly the same.
What was even more interesting is that for some reason I cleaned the Chopin and hey presto it worked perfectly!

So far I have cleaned two of the others with soapy water, rinsed and dried with a cotton cloth and they play properly now - yet they didn't look dirty and the Chopin was new and sealed (only opened today).

So is there some film left behind after production that is causing this with a very small number of discs?


Any comments would be welcome!

Post by Johnno November 23, 2008 (2 of 85)
That is, indeed, most interesting. Perhaps someone involved in the industry would care to comment.

I think I'm corrct in saying that the SACD layers are below the RBCD layer (for compatibility reasons). In hybrid discs, are the two layers bonded together? I've assumed that to be the case and have often wondered whether the bonding material might have, on occasions, affected the SACD laser beam to cause skipping, muting etc.

Post by RWetmore November 23, 2008 (3 of 85)
Actually I think the SACD layer is on top of the CD layer.

Post by Claude November 23, 2008 (4 of 85)
I also have problems with a number of hybrid SACDs that is slowly but constantly increasing (about 20 of >500 discs). I guess it is mainly the fault of the Sony XA777 player, as the discs play fine on my Philips 963.

The SACD layer is recognized, but there is frequent skipping of sound. During playback, the laser makes "searching" noises.

But I also noticed that it only happens with some labels, while others are completely immune. For example, none of my Pentatone and Living Stereo SACDs has these skipping problems.

So manufacturing also seems to have something to do with it.

Some people have suggested putting the discs between two layers of aluminium foil before playback to remove electrostatic charge, but this had little to no effect with my problematic discs.

Post by stardreamer November 24, 2008 (5 of 85)
I have tried the Saint-Saens on my two players. It plays perfectly on the NAD M5, it does not work properly (skipping) on the Denon A1.
I don't have your other discs so I can't tell about them.

My guess is these discs are borderline (at the limits of the specs or just outside), so correct playback may depend on the performances of the player's transport.
I'm quite surprised your Pioneer has problems with these discs as they are (to my knowledge) among the most efficient. Quite often discs that don't play right on other players should work just fine on a Pioneer.

The only other problem I once had was on the US pressing of Kitaro's Sacred Journey of Ku-Kai (skipping on the 3 last tracks on every copy I tried, on the Denon ,I didn't have the NAD back then). I have now the japanese edition (COGB-15) and it plays fine.

Post by Marc P November 24, 2008 (6 of 85)
I own a Marantz SA11s1, which had the same problem. It played fine the first year, but after that some discs started skipping, always the same MFSL discs, The Who Tommy disc 2 and Elton John GBYBR disc 2.
Marantz realligned the laser and things were fine for more than a year. Than the same problem came back. Again the same couple of discs.
Since they already realligned the laser Marantz felt it should be handled differently this time, they replaced the complete CD-drive and they didn't charge me a euro, not even for shipping, now that's great service.

Post by 51surr November 24, 2008 (7 of 85)
I had a similar problem with Tommy by The Who in both DVD-A and SACD formats. I bought the DVD version because I thought my SACD became defective after a year or two of use but it had breakup and skipping problems at the same points. What I did to clear the trouble was put a fan on the floor aimed at the player and now I can play the SACD with no problems. And yes if I turn the fan off the same problems and distortions come back. I haven't tried the DVD-A disc since the SACD works fine now. This also cleared up problems I had with two other SACD disc. I hate to say the sound is sweeter but my system sounds better with the fan on. I chalked it up as a heat problem and haven't been bothered by it since the fan went into use.

Post by mariano November 25, 2008 (8 of 85)
Also my Sony XA777ES has problems with some hybrids, about 15 on >300.
With some SACD there are dropouts in the sounds.
With others, the player reads the TOC more slowly, after it needs a lot of time to find track 1, finally it doesn't play the track from the beginning. In this case if I use the "back" key I can hear the disc from the beginning and without problems.
With just 2 or 3 discs the result is TOC error.
All these SACDs play fine on a OPPO 980h, but I prefer the sound of the Sony.
I agree with both the theory of the borderline discs and the theory of the player temperature.
The skipping problem is more serious during the summer, especially when the player is working since one hour or two. Evidently, some metal expansion occurs, so that the laser doesn't work correctly.
During the cold season, or when the player is just switched on, I can hear the most of the problematic hybrids.
I also agree that some SACD production stocks are at the limits of the specs or just outside.
For example, the Tommy SACD had skipping problems or TOC error. I buyed a new copy and it plays fine.
Also Elton John GBYBR disc 2 is defective, I buyed a new copy but it works worse (same production stock?).
Three MFSL by Patricia Barber had skipping problems, but new copies play fine. In this case the super jewel box was sligthly different (new production stock?).
With "Blue Train" by Coltrane, only the third copy plays fine.
I think that both SACD and SACD player producers don't worry about the reliability of the SACD system.
I'm worried because some SACD seems to degrade over the time. I have 2 (Hiatt - Bring the family and Alison Krauss - Live) that show some large spots on the edge, as the CD and SACD layer are separating!

Anyone else can tell his experience? What we can do?
P.S.: I never had problems with Japan SACD, Hybrids or not

Post by Cherubino November 25, 2008 (9 of 85)
gortonandy said:

I have occasionally had the disks that won't play their SACD layers properly in some or all of my (three) machines (Sony SCD XA9000ES; Pioneer DV757Ai; Marantz DV9600).
There is skipping and sometimes complete non recognition of the SACD layer (CD layer OK).

The titles affected are:

Strauss - Salome & Elektra (Borkh) RCA LIVING STEREO
Saint Saens - Symphonies Nos 1 & 2 (Inbal) PENTATONE
Janacek - Eternal Gospel (Volkov) HYPERION
Chopin - Nocturnes CD2 (Hewitt) HYPERION

What was interesting is that the first three I had replaced and the replacements were exactly the same.
What was even more interesting is that for some reason I cleaned the Chopin and hey presto it worked perfectly!

So far I have cleaned two of the others with soapy water, rinsed and dried with a cotton cloth and they play properly now - yet they didn't look dirty and the Chopin was new and sealed (only opened today).

So is there some film left behind after production that is causing this with a very small number of discs?


Any comments would be welcome!

I had a tracking problem with Telarc 2SACD-60569, Mahler Symphony No. 5, Phiharmonia Orchestra/Zander. The defects, on the SACD layer only, of Disk One, were as follows:

When TRACK 2 was cued, the final chord from TRACK 1 played before the 2nd movement began.

When TRACK 4 was cued, the final 3 or 4 seconds of music from TRACK 3 played before the 5th movement began.

At the end of TRACK 5 the music stopped abruptly, cutting off the final chords of the symphony.

The CD layer had none of these anomalies.

I returned the disc directly to Telarc and they sent a replacement, which played perfectly.

Post by eesau November 25, 2008 (10 of 85)
Hi,

I have a five year old Denon 2900 that a couple of years ago started to show some sort of overheating problem i.e. after being used for a moment, the SACD layer started skipping like you described.

I heard rumors about some sort of epidemic problem that causes this phenomena and my disc unit in the player was actually exchanged without cost but I had to pay for work and transportation.

So it appears that some of the SACD disc units run very hot and they possibly age quickly causing this kind of problems. Further, it is possible that the same disc reading head design or completely the same disc unit is used among different makers of SACD players.

I have heard that older Denon and Sony products may have suffered from similar problems. Later players are OK.

best regards

Esa

PS. Denon 2900 has, since the repair, worked without any problems.

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 next

Closed