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Discussion: Mahler: Symphony No. 9 - Chailly

Posts: 18
Page: 1 2 next

Post by akiralx November 29, 2004 (1 of 18)
I see a reviewer is highlighting another multi-channel SACD (like the Hough/Litton Rachmaninov concertos) which is dispensing with the centre channel:

'The recording in surround is the best ever. (No center channel even though the little surround grid on the back has 6 dots.)'

Can anyone confirm?

Not quite sure why they are doing this (who has a multi-channel set up without a centre speaker?) but in this case it seems the packaging is slightly misleading if it implies it is in 5.1.

Their website seems to imply that:

http://www.deccaclassics.com/music/sacd/4756191.html

Rather disappointing, in my view. Mine should arrive today.

Post by mdt November 29, 2004 (2 of 18)
akiralx said:

I see a reviewer is highlighting another multi-channel SACD (like the Hough/Litton Rachmaninov concertos) which is dispensing with the centre channel:

'The recording in surround is the best ever. (No center channel even though the little surround grid on the back has 6 dots.)'

Can anyone confirm?

Not quite sure why they are doing this (who has a multi-channel set up without a centre speaker?) but in this case it seems the packaging is slightly misleading if it implies it is in 5.1.

Their website seems to imply that:

http://www.deccaclassics.com/music/sacd/4756191.html

Rather disappointing, in my view. Mine should arrive today.

I dont think a surround recording should be judged by whow much information is or is not comming from which channel.The job of the center in a pure music recording is simply that of stabilizing the center image and evening the overall balance to avoid a "hole in the middle" effect. With a good stereo feed (which allready provides a stable phantom-center) as starting point a minimum amount of center-channel information may be needed to achieve this.
Simply listen to the recording and if it gives you the feel of hearing an orchestra playing in an actual hall and that you are sitting in that hall, it's a great recording ! Hearing how much sound comes from which speaker is the last thing you want, with a good playback the effect should be that the speakers seam to "dissapear".

Post by flyingdutchman November 29, 2004 (3 of 18)
The recording doesn't have a center channel? From the website, it appears to be 5.1. What am I missing? What reviewer said it was missing the center channel?

Oh, ok John. But John doesn't have a multichannel player according to his personal info. John, could you update if you've changed your system?

Post by jdaniel@jps.net November 29, 2004 (4 of 18)
flyingdutchman said:

The recording doesn't have a center channel? From the website, it appears to be 5.1. What am I missing? What reviewer said it was missing the center channel?

Oh, ok John. But John doesn't have a multichannel player according to his personal info. John, could you update if you've changed your system?

Yes yes, it was me. I have a multi-channel system now. The Chailly 9th definitely doesn't have a center channel, but makes *no* difference. It's an incredibly immersive, yet front-anchored surround-sound experience. Don't worry about it, buy yes, packaging is misleading, esp. when they go to the trouble of using dots! Performance is best ever except for a few nits to pick in the first mov't. Hurwitz gave it a 10/10. Hurwitz gave the MTT Mahler 2nd a 9/9--didn't mention anything about the bad balancing in the off-stage brass.

Post by jdaniel@jps.net November 29, 2004 (5 of 18)
akiralx said:


Not quite sure why they are doing this (who has a multi-channel set up without a centre speaker?) but in this case it seems the packaging is slightly misleading if it implies it is in 5.1.

John again. I know this is controversial, but I feel one can dispense with the center channel *if* they listen to Classical only. I've yet to buy a classical surround release that uses the center channel aggressively. Although I have a very good center channel now, I started with just rears--which gives the listener about 90% of the benefit of surround, and I did *not* "fold down" the center--I just told the SACD player that I had one, to avoid PCM processing caused by "speaker management." Again, controversial, but I found adding a center only slightly improved sound compared to adding rears. So to all those "surround curious" out there with an extra amp and some old speakers kicking around--put together a 4.0 system just for fun!

Post by jdaniel@jps.net November 29, 2004 (6 of 18)
flyingdutchman said:


John, could you update if you've changed your system?

OK OK I will. You're gettin all "alpha-male" again. (Though it kinda turns me on... : ) (Just kidding--I forgot I even had a system profile.) (Does this mean I have to update my age in online dating services?) OH no.

Post by akiralx November 29, 2004 (7 of 18)
jdaniel@jps.net said:

John again. I know this is controversial, but I feel one can dispense with the center channel *if* they listen to Classical only. I've yet to buy a classical surround release that uses the center channel aggressively. Although I have a very good center channel now, I started with just rears--which gives the listener about 90% of the benefit of surround, and I did *not* "fold down" the center--I just told the SACD player that I had one, to avoid PCM processing caused by "speaker management." Again, controversial, but I found adding a center only slightly improved sound compared to adding rears. So to all those "surround curious" out there with an extra amp and some old speakers kicking around--put together a 4.0 system just for fun!

Cheers, that's helpful - I have a good centre (for home cinema primarily, of course) and it just seem a pity not to use it.

Glad that you report the recording does not suffer as a result.

I envisage this M9 SACD will be waiting on my doormat when I get home so will probably listen tonight.

Post by tailspn November 29, 2004 (8 of 18)
The Chailly Mahler 3 has a center channel, although it a bit more than the usual 6dB down from the left and right channels. It’s even somewhat less than the two rear channels. I do find it hard to understand that Decca would not include the center channel in the 9th, but did on the 3rd.

I also disagree on a center channels supposed lack of importance, or impact. To me, it significantly changes the weight of the orchestra, making it much more like the real event. Even when used in moderation. Without it, there is still a very even spread of the orchestra across the front, you just miss it when it's gone.

I do hope that this is not the beginning of a marketing trend to make multichannel acceptable to the two channel committed audiophiles. The new LSO SA-CD’s are also sans center channel, even the Tony Faulkner recorded Shostakovich No 11. Pity.

Post by Dan Popp November 29, 2004 (9 of 18)
akiralx said:

Not quite sure why they are doing this (who has a multi-channel set up without a centre speaker?)

akiralx,
No doubt those in charge felt that it sounded better without it. (This is the same reason that the LFE channel is often ignored.)

If your front speakers are not as far apart as the width of a movie screen, you may not miss much, if anything, by deleting the center channel.

Post by akiralx November 29, 2004 (10 of 18)
Dan Popp said:

akiralx,
No doubt those in charge felt that it sounded better without it. (This is the same reason that the LFE channel is often ignored.)

If your front speakers are not as far apart as the width of a movie screen, you may not miss much, if anything, by deleting the center channel.

With music I would probably agree when the SACD has been mastered that way, as with the Chailly M9 - but with films the centre channel is very important, perhaps the most important as it anchors the dialogue to the image.

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